Serious false accusations, lies made against paw

Allow me to set the record straight, in an effort to stop the blatant smear campaign that has been started against me and PennyAuctionWatch.com, on a newly started penny auction forum (shenanigans/dzignr_tastz)

The user eshopper has posted the following allegations to this new penny auction forum:

“Instead of writing all that out again, this will be a condensed version.
Check out the following user names on PAW (be sure and read at least some of their posts under statistics):

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=5

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=4

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=3

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=6

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=8 (probably)
http://www.pennyauct...…ber.php?u=1126 (you thought the bid on cash threads continuing to go on and on was just an oversight?)

http://www.pennyauct...ember.php?u=261


Now. Would anyone like to guess who all those user names belong to? Its one person. A person who is using that site to collect free bids or money from “sponsored” sites and a person who uses their forum friendships, carefully formed in the threads of her favorite sites, to manipulate the playing field in penny auctions by having at least the people from the forums not bidding against her.


Other identities were used to say things about a site, like to bring up suspicious activity on a site, using an anonymous name. Because..it wouldn’t look very good for the site admin to allow a sponsored forum on a site she had suspicions about, would it? I am sure there are many more user names being used by this person, these are just the ones I’m sure about.

Anyway, theres a lot more but thats the gist of it. Anyone who has been paying close attention probably isn’t surprised. This is the reason why there will never be a user we know promoted to moderator status on PAW. It would require her giving admin access to someone who would then be able to see how her IP matched all those other user name IPs. Just like it was her behind that weird “MODERATOR” name she made up, any moderator in the future will be either her or her “mom” or her “sister”. I use quotes because she told Shen her mother and sister helped her with the site, myself, I don’t believe anything she says so I just assume they’re ALL her.
Just thought you all should know.

I am sure there are many more user names being used by this person, these are just the ones I’m sure about.”

MESSAGE FROM PAW: Assuming things about anyone and falsely accusing is unjust.

Lunasol was me when I first started the forum because at that time I was new to forums and didn’t want the administrator to be giving opinions. I no longer post under that username or any other username other than PennyAuctionWatch (the username that have also been used by moderators).
Mapleleaves is my sister who occasionally played on penny auctions and was also used to help investigate a site (see #8).
My mom also has a username on my site, she used to post under her old bidding name lottzadeals and now uses biddingfool.
Angelducky is a real separate person unrelated to me.
Bloo123456 is a real separate person, unrelated to me. (This user joined in the beginning and came from Yottabid.com, the first penny auction site I played.)
knivez112 is a real separate person, unrelated to me.
Janyce16 is a real, separate person, unrelated to me. (This user joined in the beginning and came from Yottabid.com, the first penny auction site I played.)
Tanyalove was me, used to investigate a penny auction site that we thought was giving wins to only active users on the PAW forum. So this is why this undercover user was set up. The whole purpose of PAW was set up to shut down and warn about shady penny auctions and this was just one of the investigative techniques that we had used.
Also, my mom may have used another username in the past when talking about a site that was never sponsored on my forum and they had refused to send her a won item or bill her in a timely manner.
NO, it would not be right for me to allow a site to have a sponsored forum on my site that I had suspicions about this is why I was trying to prove wrongdoing on their part without accusing them first (What happened to innocent before PROVEN guilty? Through research we found many users that we thought were scam users were actually real bidders so we could not find enough evidence to suggest that there was wrongdoing on the site owner, because we at PAW want to be VERY careful to not accuse people/penny auction sites until we have proof. I do not disclose my usernames, other than a site that we were trying to investigate. On one instance, many months ago, I told eshopper my username on dime-divas.com but soon after I requested that dime-divas.com change my username because I did not want any collusion going on nor did I want anyone to know my username there, so that I could not have an unfair advantage over any bidder. Also, I may have signed up on bidoncash and used the few free bids that all users were given, but I have never purchased free bids nor have I received any more free bids from bidoncash.com. I did not realize what all users were up to on the bidoncash.com thread which has since been closed. I have notified bidoncash.com of the possible collusion and have invited them to read these threads on our forum.

User Coolguy451 posted the following to this other penny auction forum:

“One of the things that seemed to really change about PAW happened when she started getting financial support from PA sites. This may be a coincidence but I personally feel that this change impacted the sites ability to be honest about sites (or at least she took a much more cautious approach) because she felt the need to protect these sites who are now her main source of income for the site. Unfortunately, I never saw a post discussing this new relationship she formed with PA sites. Obviously she needed to increase revenue as more people used the site but by allowing PA sites direct support of PAW some might feel they are gaining an unfair advantage with regards to PAW and the investigations she was/is doing.”

Message from PAW: If ANYONE has PROOF of ANY penny auction sites that are either advertising, other than google ads, which I have no control over, and sponsored forums on Pennyauctionwatch.com, are shill bidding or doing anything else less than honest, let me know IMMEDIATELY and I WILL REMOVE their forum, all advertising, refund their money and ensure that their site is posted to the redflags section. I have integrity and cannot and will not be bought off by fraudsters. So please, send me your proof. Continuing to make these false accusations about me will not be tolerated.

If these lies continue to be posted about me, I will be contacting my lawyer.



If the purpose of this new penny auction forum is to make up lies about PAW and blindly accuse me, how can we trust anything that they say about penny auction sites?

Edited by PennyAuctionWatch, 23 April 2010 - 06:06 PM.

I think it is funny you posted my quote without even addressing what I said. I I posted an observation and opinion about this website and the changes I have recently observed, and I stand by that. This site is not the same as it was when I first joined and I see far less investigation being posted while more and more sites are added as "sponsors".

I get the fact the site needs to make money as it grows, but what I don't get is allowing new, non-established sites the right to sponsor a forum on PAW. Maybe you don't see it this way, but I think a lot of readers might misinterpret these sites as being established and proven honest sites when in fact no criteria has ever been posted (that I have seen) that outlines what they are paying for, and what (if any) relationship that PAW has to these sponsoring sites. These sites shouldn't be able to open up sponsored forums until PAW has reasonable, established proof that these sites are running an honest business. Once that is established, then they have earned the right to sponsor a forum on PAW with the understanding that if any facts come to light that shows them as a dishonest site, this right will be revoked. The way it is done now seems counterproductive to a watchdog site---and to me, takes a way from the credibility of this site (which is unfortunate).

So go ahead and quote me all you want, I feel that I have been and continue to be a contributing member of this community. You may not like my opinions, but I have the right to state them---and if you don't like it, I guess you can add me to your growing list of people you ban from your site.

I think it is funny you posted my quote without even addressing what I said. I I posted an observation and opinion about this website and the changes I have recently observed, and I stand by that. This site is not the same as it was when I first joined and I see far less investigation being posted while more and more sites are added as "sponsors".

I get the fact the site needs to make money as it grows, but what I don't get is allowing new, non-established sites the right to sponsor a forum on PAW. Maybe you don't see it this way, but I think a lot of readers might misinterpret these sites as being established and proven honest sites when in fact no criteria has ever been posted (that I have seen) that outlines what they are paying for, and what (if any) relationship that PAW has to these sponsoring sites. These sites shouldn't be able to open up sponsored forums until PAW has reasonable, established proof that these sites are running an honest business. Once that is established, then they have earned the right to sponsor a forum on PAW with the understanding that if any facts come to light that shows them as a dishonest site, this right will be revoked. The way it is done now seems counterproductive to a watchdog site---and to me, takes a way from the credibility of this site (which is unfortunate).

So go ahead and quote me all you want, I feel that I have been and continue to be a contributing member of this community. You may not like my opinions, but I have the right to state them---and if you don't like it, I guess you can add me to your growing list of people you ban from your site.

.i still believe that paw is a valuable tool for users and owners alike and will continue to be part of paw . i also believe that having another forum or other sites that verify the legitimacy of Pennyauctions is a must.

i do hope that these 2 forums do not end up beeing in a battle against each other since that would hurt not only the bidder but also the owners.

we all know by now that shennanigans has opened his own forum and i am a member there as well as here .

i really dont think that my concern is ever going to be which forum is better .both have their ups and downs .
for me as a bidder i am looking to get the most info that is out there.

as far as i am concerned eshopper was partially right in her post since she did mention tanyalove and lunasol and she was wrong on janyce and bloo .

monika



why have the comments on the frontpage been deleted ?

Coolguy451: If you have any evidence to suggest that any of the tested sites that are forum sponsors are acting dishonestly please let us know. The criteria for advertising/sponsoring PAW is that they must not be shill bidding or acting unethically. What do they get? They receive a banner next to the forum thread and their site's discussion is on the mainpage of the forum.

Also, a few users have been banned because they have broken the forum rules on multiple occasions.

Monikab: The comments were not deleted from the frontpage, we made the thread so that the comments were made in the forum only. This has nothing to do with whose forum is better but of posts that have been made that falsely accuse me and my intentions.

Edited by PennyAuctionWatch, 23 April 2010 - 06:51 PM.

Coolguy451: If you have any evidence to suggest that any of the tested sites that are forum sponsors are acting dishonestly please let us know.

You are completely missing my point about sponsored forums and how they are perceived by your readers (and why there should be posted rules/FAQs/etc about these forums). It doesn't matter anyways since this is your forum and you will run it how you want.

You are completely missing my point about sponsored forums and how they are perceived by your readers (and why there should be posted rules/FAQs/etc about these forums). It doesn't matter anyways since this is your forum and you will run it how you want.

I am not missing your point and will take your advice and work on adding the rules/criteria for this very soon. Thanks for your feedback.

It seems the Battle has begun, and what a shame that is for users of forums to try and have a good bidding experience.

Maybe I'm just tired from lack of sleep, but Amanda, you say there are a bunch of user names that are all the same person, am I correct? Well, who is it?

As far as your user name "Lunison" heck, I figured that one out on my own a long time ago. No one told me it was you. "Lunisol" posted, and it was only to say mean things about other bidders. Well I guess I proved you wrong about thinking I was a bot, huh? That's why I came to PAW in the first place. You and wabbit were talking about me. It wasn't the first time people thought "bella" was a bot. My user name is beautifully displayed on a post at Digg. The one difference between "Lunisol" and wabbit? Wabbit said hi and welcome to PAW! when I joined and told the two of you I was a real human being. "Lunisol" didn't bother.

As far as having more than just PAW to rely on, well hel*s bells woman, did you think you had the market cornered? That's like saying there's only gonna be ONE PA site that's worth a crap.

Once again, you brought your personal feelings into a thread. That I fear will be your downfall.

I wish you the very best, I always have and will continue to do so, but lay off the personal emotions, state the facts and only the facts. And don't worry about other PA forum sites. If you do a good job, you will be around for a long time, but if you make this PERSONAL, you invite a feeding frenzie.

Amanda, I'm curious as to what exactly the "serious false accusations" and "lies" were that were made against you? The user (eshopper) was your friend when you first started PAW and probably has/had more history with you than anyone here. Perhaps her assumptions about why you made the names were wrong, but she was right that it was you.

So, it has already been determined that only half of those users were you/your family, and the users post that was made on our forum has been edited to reflect only the links to the accounts that have been verified to be you.

With that said, you said in your above post:

Lunasol was me when I first started the forum because at that time I was new to forums and didn’t want the administrator to be giving opinions. I no longer post under that username or any other username other than PennyAuctionWatch (the username that have also been used by moderators).

Lunasol – Last posted a passive-aggressive comment Feb 9th in the Dime-Divas thread, post# 1238 . You were irate that someone else debuted a Seal of Approval mere hours before you did, and it was already posted on Dime-Divas site. (I know your state-of-mind because Shen and I have conversations saved from that day where you expressed how absolutely furious you were. Your anger was understandable, however, you did post recently under "Lunasol's" name.)

Tanyalove was me, used to investigate a penny auction site that we thought was giving wins to only active users on the PAW forum. So this is why this undercover user was set up. The whole purpose of PAW was set up to shut down and warn about shady penny auctions and this was just one of the investigative techniques that we had used.

Tanyalove - Last posted on Feb 24th, starting "her" own thread, "You might be addicted to penny auctions if..." and then posted a few times in the DigBids thread.


Then, on Easter Sunday, April 4th, you announced a "new moderator," PAWuser2. Coincidentally, this mod only posted twice: once threatening to ban Shenanigans and Dzignr_tastz and then again in that thread, accusing one of them of making harrassing phone calls and giving them a "last warning" to "play nice." After that day, this nameless Mod disappeared and hasn't been heard from since.

I have screenshots of you logging out, PAWuser2 logging in and vice versa, right in the same minute. I don't really think it's a coincidence, especially since this "mod" disappeared after that day. (And that username was changed from PAWModerator to PAWuser2 for some reason.)

NO, it would not be right for me to allow a site to have a sponsored forum on my site that I had suspicions about this is why I was trying to prove wrongdoing on their part without accusing them first (What happened to innocent before PROVEN guilty?

I'm not really sure what posting with shill user accounts has to do with trying to out a probable scam site. Just being honest here :S I went back and looked through most of the posts that your "other selves" made and they don't really seem to have a point; at least, not in trying to "prove wrongdoing." They're just random comments made by nameless/faceless users. Why couldn't the real you, PennyAuctionWatch, have made those posts?

If these lies continue to be posted about me, I will be contacting my lawyer.

What lies? Again, eshopper gave her opinion of why you made the shill user accounts, and coolguy gave his opinion of why he's felt/seen a change in the forum recently.

If the purpose of this new penny auction forum is to make up lies about PAW and blindly accuse me, how can we trust anything that they say about penny auction sites?

The purpose of our forum is to find and bring to light (with concrete proof) shady penny auction sites, as well as verify honest penny auction sites. We also provide a structured, moderated environment where the penny auction community can "hang out" and discuss their experiences with the various PA sites and forums.

No one is making up lies or falsely accusing you of anything. It just seems like a lot of people have questions about the way you do things.

PS: You and your mom don't need multiple accounts on PAW. If either of you have problems with a user or PA owner, you should just say so as yourselves like everyone else is required to do. Does anyone else have more than one account?

OK, Eshoppers accusations, in the 1st place Janyce has been around for along time infact probably longer than both Amanda and me, I used to bid against Amanda Well before PAW and neither of these two are even close to being her. Then there is Bloo I know blue now for nearly a year I remember when he started he was working at Dunken donuts and would blow every spare penny on the auctions which he discussed on the Yottabid forums way before 99% of you ever heard about PA's. So we can see where Eshoppers credibility stands.

OK, Eshoppers accusations, in the 1st place Janyce has been around for along time infact probably longer than both Amanda and me,....

yeap i have been around for a long time.

[quote name='Hijinks']Amanda, I'm curious as to what exactly the "serious false accusations" and "lies" were that were made against you? The user (eshopper) was your friend when you first started PAW and probably has/had more history with you than anyone here. Perhaps her assumptions about why you made the names were wrong, but she was right that it was you.[/quote]

Please re-read the post and you will see what allegations and lies that were made. Eshopper also alluded that I was manipulating auctions, knew usernames of members and they knew mine as well as false accused me of being multiple users here.
[quote name='Hijinks']
So, it has already been determined that only half of those users were you/your family, and the users post that was made on our forum has been edited to reflect only the links to the accounts that have been verified to be you.[/QUOTE]

Yes I have admitted that, that is not the issue, see above.
[quote name='Hijinks']
With that said, you said in your above post:



Lunasol – Last posted a passive-aggressive comment Feb 9th in the Dime-Divas thread, post# 1238 . You were irate that someone else debuted a Seal of Approval mere hours before you did, and it was already posted on Dime-Divas site. (I know your state-of-mind because Shen and I have conversations saved from that day where you expressed how absolutely furious you were. Your anger was understandable, however, you did post recently under "Lunasol's" name.)

Tanyalove - Last posted on Feb 24th, starting "her" own thread, "You might be addicted to penny auctions if..." and then posted a few times in the DigBids thread.[/QUOTE]

Here you are attempting to false accuse me again?
[quote name='Hijinks']
Then, on Easter Sunday, April 4th, you announced a "new moderator," PAWuser2. Coincidentally, this mod only posted twice: once threatening to ban Shenanigans and Dzignr_tastz and then again in that thread, accusing one of them of making harrassing phone calls and giving them a "last warning" to "play nice." After that day, this nameless Mod disappeared and hasn't been heard from since. I have screenshots of you logging out, PAWuser2 logging in and vice versa, right in the same minute. I don't really think it's a coincidence, especially since this "mod" disappeared after that day. (And that username was changed from PAWModerator to PAWuser2 for some reason.)[/QUOTE]

This new moderator was not me but someone that was with me and frustrated about what was going on with the forum so I had allowed him to become moderator. You are alleging that this moderator was a fake and me yet he is a totally separate person. We were using the same computer.


[quote name='Hijinks']
I'm not really sure what posting with shill user accounts has to do with trying to out a probable scam site. Just being honest here :S I went back and looked through most of the posts that your "other selves" made and they don't really seem to have a point; at least, not in trying to "prove wrongdoing." They're just random comments made by nameless/faceless users. Why couldn't the real you, PennyAuctionWatch, have made those posts?[/QUOTE]

The shill user accounts were made because we saw a select few users here that were very vocal on PAW win multiple items at what seemed to be at a hugely discounted price, bidding behaviors appeared to be strange so we had attempted to test and see if they could have indeed been "giving out" items to PAW forum members, but after further investigation concluded that many members were real people and did not follow through with bidding on that site and testing it out. The real pennyauctionwatch user was not used because we did not want to false accuse anyone without evidence of wrongdoing.

[quote name='Hijinks']
What lies? Again, eshopper gave her opinion of why you made the shill user accounts, and coolguy gave his opinion of why he's felt/seen a change in the forum recently.[/QUOTE]

See above.
[quote name='Hijinks']

No one is making up lies or falsely accusing you of anything. It just seems like a lot of people have questions about the way you do things.
[/QUOTE]


They weren't?

[quote name='ESHOPPER']
[/B]"Check out the following user names on PAW (be sure and read at least some of their posts under statistics):

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=5

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=4

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=3

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=6

http://www.pennyauct.../member.php?u=8 (probably)
http://www.pennyauct...…ber.php?u=1126 (you thought the bid on cash threads continuing to go on and on was just an oversight?)

http://www.pennyauct...ember.php?u=261


Now. Would anyone like to guess who all those user names belong to? Its one person. A person who is using that site to collect free bids or money from “sponsored” sites and a person who uses their forum friendships, carefully formed in the threads of her favorite sites, to manipulate the playing field in penny auctions by having at least the people from the forums not bidding against her.


Other identities were used to say things about a site, like to bring up suspicious activity on a site, using an anonymous name. Because..it wouldn’t look very good for the site admin to allow a sponsored forum on a site she had suspicions about, would it? I am sure there are many more user names being used by this person, these are just the ones I’m sure about.

Anyway, theres a lot more but thats the gist of it. Anyone who has been paying close attention probably isn’t surprised. This is the reason why there will never be a user we know promoted to moderator status on PAW. It would require her giving admin access to someone who would then be able to see how her IP matched all those other user name IPs. Just like it was her behind that weird “MODERATOR” name she made up, any moderator in the future will be either her or her “mom” or her “sister”. I use quotes because she told Shen her mother and sister helped her with the site, myself, I don’t believe anything she says so I just assume they’re ALL her.
Just thought you all should know.

I am sure there are many more user names being used by this person, these are just the ones I’m sure about.” -eshopper on your forum. [/QUOTE]


PS: You and your mom don't need multiple accounts on PAW. If either of you have problems with a user or PA owner, you should just say so as yourselves like everyone else is required to do. Does anyone else have more than one account?[/QUOTE]

We only use one account now, as I already admitted this was in the past.
My mother had multiple accounts because she forgot the username/information and instead of resetting the account she had started a new one and did not wish to post under the other any longer. Yes, actually Shenanigans had more than one account and other users have also been found to have created more than 1 account.




Bella: There is no battle here, I am only attempting to set the record straight.

Edited by PennyAuctionWatch, 23 April 2010 - 07:59 PM.

What is the name of this other forum so I can read both sides of the story? I can't find anything with google except links to this article.

Please re-read the post and you will see what allegations and lies that were made. Eshopper also alluded that I was manipulating auctions, knew usernames of members and they knew mine as well as false accused me of being multiple users here.

I don't know any of that to be true, however, going back to your alter-ego, Tanyalove, in this thread, post #306, she's claiming a purse. Saying, "I know what I will be bidding on" is seen as a form of collusion, as you've basically staked your claim and others may not bid on that item because you've stated that you will be bidding on it. Do you see how others, eshopper for example, can think that you've attempted to manipulate auctions in the past?

Here you are attempting to false accuse me again?

Where am I falsely accusing you, Amanda? :S I posted links that speak for themselves. You were angry about PennyAuctionList having made a SOA after you had been working on your own. Do you deny that?

That post in the Dime-Divas thread was passive-aggressive, and clearly shows (at least to me, as I read the conversations you had with Shen from that day) that you, not "Lunasol" felt betrayed by PAL for having made a SOA and at Dime-Divas for having it on their site.

This new moderator was not me but someone that was with me and frustrated about what was going on with the forum so I had allowed him to become moderator. You are alleging that this moderator was a fake and me yet he is a totally separate person. We were using the same computer.

Who was he? Why were you using the same computer? Why didn't he stick around? What did he say that you couldn't have said?

Amanda, I'm not trying to deliberately give you a hard time, but I am an active member of many forums and they make a point to let all of the users know who the Moderators are and that they're real people.

In fact, on my fan-based forum, users and Moderators alike are required to post a real avatar picture of themselves, and are required to post at least their first real name. Unfortunately, this isn't 100% protection from scammers, however it really cuts down on BS.

The shill user accounts were made because we saw a select few users here that were very vocal on PAW win multiple items at what seemed to be at a hugely discounted price, bidding behaviors appeared to be strange so we had attempted to test and see if they could have indeed been "giving out" items to PAW forum members, but after further investigation concluded that many members were real people and did not follow through with bidding on that site and testing it out.

So you/Tanyalove were claiming the purse that I linked to above to see if you would get a discount? And how would you verify the discount? PA's go up and down all the time. So how would you have verified if they were giving PAW users any special treatment? Is violating your own rules in an attempt to get circumstantial evidence worth it?

The real pennyauctionwatch user was not used because we did not want to false accuse anyone without evidence of wrongdoing.

But it was okay to use an alter-ego to do so? :S

We only use one account now, as I already admitted this was in the past.

The point is, though, is it in the past? Because Lunasol and Tanyalove last posted in February, which really wasn't too long ago. Had you determined after Tanyalove's last post on February 24th that you wouldn't use alter-egos anymore? If so, why?

Is there anyone else that has more than one account? You didn't answer that question.

Please know that I am absolutely sincere in my questions and observations. Tone is impossible to convey across internet waves, but I am not intending to be disrespectful.

-----------------------

What is the name of this other forum so I can read both sides of the story? I can't find anything with google except links to this article

Yikes! Good thing I had already quoted you before your post was deleted. I won't post our name here, out of respect. However, if Amanda/PAW wants to post a link or our name, she can do so.

Hijinks

it is obvious you are posting here to create some shenanegans (pun intended) You have ties to Nick right? as it is clear who is actually writing these post. Your attacks also seem to have some personal agenda to them as well? For someone who has not been very active on this site you sure have alot of intimate knowledge and records.

I think I speak for many here knock off the attacks, lines have been drawn just stay on your perspective sides stop the bantering

Hijinks

it is obvious you are posting here to create some shenanegans (pun intended) You have ties to Nick right? as it is clear who is actually writing these post. Your attacks also seem to have some personal agenda to them as well? For someone who has not been very active on this site you sure have alot of intimate knowledge and records.

I think I speak for many here knock off the attacks, lines have been drawn just stay on your perspective sides stop the bantering

I don't usually like to get into the mix very often, but BTW you expressed exactly what I was thinking! The posts... just seemed so....familiar

Hijinks

it is obvious you are posting here to create some shenanegans (pun intended) You have ties to Nick right? as it is clear who is actually writing these post. Your attacks also seem to have some personal agenda to them as well? For someone who has not been very active on this site you sure have alot of intimate knowledge and records.

I think I speak for many here knock off the attacks, lines have been drawn just stay on your perspective sides stop the bantering

Hi BTW Yes, I have ties to Nick. In fact, I introduced myself in my first post as his girlfriend, Katie. (Nice to meet you, by the way!) You're welcome to go back and read all of my previous posts, but I started posting in the Bargains & Fun thread a few days ago when it got out of control.

If you are implying that Nick is writing my posts, you're wrong. We don't even talk the same, much less type the same. Others here know who I am and know that I am very much real, including PAW. Would you like me to post a video of myself typing on PAW and saying "Hello" to you? :cool: (That was a sincere question, by the way.)

I do not have a "personal agenda," and I am not "attacking" anyone.

I have not been active on this site because, after Nick was banned the first time, I did not want to be an active member of a site where people are banned for no reason, their characters smeared, leaving them defenseless. I started posting because, as I said, the B&F thread got out of control and I wanted to add some perspective to it.

I have "intimate knowledge" of things because I am Nick's girlfriend. I sat with him many nights while he chatted with Amanda, working on my own computer. All of the "records" - conversations and e-mails - are saved on our main computer, as are all of my conversations and e-mails with my own friends. That's just how we do things, usually specifically for situations where, if you don't have proof, you can't prove it.

Thanks for your candid response, however it is the bickering that has torn this site apart and drawn the lines, it is simply unnessasary, and even though I respect Nick, I think it is time for this to be over and each go there own way. There are now two forums and I am sure Nick would not allow too much of this on his site. What is happening is Mobs are being created on both sides and many trolls have or will be spawned which is no good for either site. So maybe just let things be and may the best forum win or simply coexist. I have seen competing forums that have bad blood compete and no one wins just constant mudslinging.

I second that BTW and let both forum work constructively and expose the shady PA.Good luck to both and I am really tired of this constant bickering.Its a loss of productivity on both side and deviating from the original agenda.

BTW, RockyBidUser, I agree with both of you. The purpose of BOTH sites is and should always be to keep the community informed of scam PA sites, legit PA sites, and to give them a place to discuss both.

I think Bella said it best:

I wish you the very best, I always have and will continue to do so, but lay off the personal emotions, state the facts and only the facts. And don't worry about other PA forum sites. If you do a good job, you will be around for a long time, but if you make this PERSONAL, you invite a feeding frenzie.

The thread on our forum has been closed. We don't want to bring the bickering and mud-slinging over. I do think that there are a lot of unanswered questions, but we cannot force an answer.

The PA Community can only benefit from having more venues from which they can learn about scam and legit PA sites. We're willing to work together with all of the other PA forums and sites, and put the past behind us

Hope to see y'all there!

Glad that you did this. Now lets hunt some badguys together help the PA community. Back to work folks.woot