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Started by NewComer , Sep 29 2010 07:01 PM

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#21

rotaryguy
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I believe I hit a nerve. Did you have them void that auction, so you mean that they were unaware of the glitch until you pointed it out to them and then they just did not know what to do about it so therefore you insisted that they void it. I'm just curious, did it go like that or was it more like they informed you of glitch and that they were going to void it
I suspect that every good deed you have done in the pa world had underlying self-serving motives. Regarding the Sellmoo example, I'd bet my bottom dollar you knew going in that you were over the limit. You see, you are obviously a smart man who knows exactly what he is doing. I do not for one second believe that you were unaware of their win limits beforehand and I damn sure don't believe that you lost count of your wins and the time frame in which they occurred. You are obviously highly intelligent and quite savvy, a man who minds his details and as a result realizes success, well deserved success. There is no way a man such as this, such as yourself, exceeded the win limits without knowing full well beforehand.


people arent perfect, even the best of them make honest mistakes.

#22

cantthinkofone
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people arent perfect, even the best of them make honest mistakes.


Without question. But if you believe he made an honest mistake here then I'd like to talk to you about a South Florida land deal.

#23

realbidtowin
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In fact their autobidder was malfunctioning when there was more than one autobidder and there were also singlebidders the autobidder would take more from one bidder than another, and we are not talking just a couple bids. They had their programmer call me who also comfirmed this was happening This is why the autobidder now fires all autobids at once. After discovering this issue they offered me 20% bids refund on all the autions I won and that would have equaled several hundred $$ to the good for me, however since that would not have been fair to others I insisted they cancel the auctions which they did..

#24

realbidtowin
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Let me add this, as of this point I have not heard anything from them regarding my bids back, but I do know this. They did tell me that they did refunds bids back to several players in that auction and that was even prior to my discussions with them. Maybe this will be a good litmus test to see how fair they are or if they allow greed to get in the way of their better judgement (I hope not)

#25

NewComer
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Putting the matter to rest.


I am the senior partner and not the normal person that posts under “Newcomer” and I am going to make a quick post about our decision on this matter. The server did not go down. The servers link to the internet was severed for emergency maintenance done by the PLANET causing all 500 servers housed in that particular building to briefly lose their internet connection.


Had there been a malfunction that caused people to lose bids or charged their autobidder more bids than their opponent we would have voided the auction as we have done in the past. There was no server malfunction.



There were only 2 active bidders on-line at the time and a total of 5 IP addresses signed on for the last auction of the night. We know exactly “who” was signed on by the IP addresses. Had it been 3 hours earlier when many more people were on the site, our decision probably would have been different.


The 2 “powerbidders” going after this item both decided to overbid to more than double the value of the item in order to establish their respective “reputations” as people you “dare not bid against”.
Had the connection not been severed, they probably would have continued to bid for quite some time, costing them thousands more. So, the service connection cost us money and saved them money at the same time.


The last recorded bidder and official winner was the one our site posted. Keep in mind the server never went down so the records are accurate. The underbidder, would not have been able to bid again due to internet interruption so our decision to send the underbidder, a MacBook as well is more than fair.


This is not a question of “ethics” as it has been mentioned here in this thread. In fact, ethics in our opinion, dictates that we award both parties their MacBooks. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to, however this is only a privately owned forum to express opinions, not a government oversight committee, and my decision is final in this matter.


I am businessman in business to make a profit. When 2 people decide to go over and well beyond the retail value of an item in a bidding war for their own personal agenda that is not my concern. To expect us to refund these parties due to a very convenient glitch occurring rather than keep the profits is ridiculous in this matter. I well understand the point made about the possible other bidders involved, but the point is moot as I pointed out above.


What is not being questioned here is the “ethics” of the powerbidders who wish so badly to make a name for themselves that they would spend thousands more than an item is actually worth. Keep in mind, we have no control of the actions of bidders if they are staying within the posted site rules.


Since the word “ethics” is being raised so profoundly throughout this thread, I have a question.


How ethical is it for a person to try to dominate a new site with excessive bidding in an attempt to drive all customers away from bidding on items they are bidding on, which has the unintended by-product of ultimately keeping good customers from participating on the site and may in fact lead to a site's demise?


While my junior partners try to keep on open mind and give people the benefit of the doubt,I personally disagree with them and find it very “insulting” that our ethics are being questioned in this matter. This is why I am posting a response directly.


This will be my only post in this matter. I am extremely busy person with multiple interests and really do have time to even read this or other forums.


Thank you for your time.

#26

realbidtowin
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[quote name='NewComer']Putting the matter to rest.


I am the senior partner and not the normal person that posts under “Newcomer” and I am going to make a quick post about our decision on this matter. The server did not go down. The servers link to the internet was severed for emergency maintenance done by the PLANET causing all 500 servers housed in that particular building to briefly lose their internet connection. Had there been a malfunction that caused people to lose bids or charged their autobidder more bids than their opponent we would have voided the auction as we have done in the past. There was no server malfunction. [/QUOTE]

Call it what you wish technically it may have not been a malfunction, however it was a server-side event (a glitch as you put it) that artificially and forever changed the outcome of an auction, in the PA world regardless when server side issues occur that alter the outcome of an auction ALL auctions should be voided.



[quote]
There were only 2 active bidders on-line at the time and a total of 5 IP addresses signed on for the last auction of the night. We know exactly “who” was signed on by the IP addresses. Had it been 3 hours earlier when many more people were on the site, our decision probably would have been different. [/quote]

Are you kidding us this in this game the rules have to be the same for all you cannot make judgements based upon how many bidders were involved. in fact you claim there were 5 IP's logged on others could have lost money considering they had bids already placed and since the two as you say active bidders were in autobidder war they may have been waiting to re-enter the auction once one dropped out. Your dicisions have to be the same regardless of how many or the time of day as we trust you with our money we also have to trust your fairness and you have clearly disclosed that you have double standards.

[quote]
The 2 “powerbidders” going after this item both decided to overbid to more than double the value of the item in order to establish their respective “reputations” as people you “dare not bid against”. [/quote]

Why are you embelishing the truth that was a flat out lie which I can prove I was no where near double retail in fact I was only about 20% above it. Regardless how much someone hsa bid should have no impact on a decision of fairness.



[quote]
Had the connection not been severed, they probably would have continued to bid for quite some time, costing them thousands more. So, the service connection cost us money and saved them money at the same time. [/quote]

How is it you are able to predict the outcome of an auction before it happens. so your justification is you were saving them money. 1st off you need to learn why PB's overpay in the 1st place, it is not to win an perticular item, there is a point in an auction that you bid simply to beat another bidder at all cost as this is an investment in your future, so realistically since the auction was abruptly stopped by a server-side issue that money was wasted as neither were able to accomplish thier goal.



[quote]
The last recorded bidder and official winner was the one our site posted. Keep in mind the server never went down so the records are accurate. The underbidder, would not have been able to bid again due to internet interruption so our decision to send the underbidder, a MacBook as well is more than fair. [/quote]

The only reason you offered the so called loser a Macbok was becasue it was cheaper for you, SO everyone involed in the auctioin was given a concession except the so called winner.



[quote]
This is not a question of “ethics” as it has been mentioned here in this thread. In fact, ethics in our opinion, dictates that we award both parties their MacBooks. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to, however this is only a privately owned forum to express opinions, not a government oversight committee, and my decision is final in this matter. [/quote]

Yes you offered the other guy a macbook after he called you and complained and when he did you also banned his IP becasue he was upset that he lost alot of money because of this server side error. I did not spend the kind of money I do to allow the loser to also win the item, this is also a corrupt decision.

[quote]
I am businessman in business to make a profit. When 2 people decide to go over and well beyond the retail value of an item in a bidding war for their own personal agenda that is not my concern. To expect us to refund these parties due to a very convenient glitch occurring rather than keep the profits is ridiculous in this matter. I well understand the point made about the possible other bidders involved, but the point is moot as I pointed out above. [/quote]


Holy sh*t can you belive that statement, that is the craziest thing I have ever heard a PA owner say, talk about greedy. obviously he could careless anout honesty, or fairness... Hello this convienient glitch was caused by you...

Seems to me your only concern is your profit not your integrity. See you again admit there was a glitch, and yes we do expect you to refund ALL participants, it is clear that you are not accountable for your own sites actions and are willing to achieve that profit regardless of integrity, honesty and fainess. This also shows that your decisions are greed based.


[quote]
What is not being questioned here is the “ethics” of the powerbidders who wish so badly to make a name for themselves that they would spend thousands more than an item is actually worth. Keep in mind, we have no control of the actions of bidders if they are staying within the posted site rules. [/quote]

That was one of the dumbest statements I thing I have ever read on here, what code of ethics are the PB's breaking????????

[quote]
Since the word “ethics” is being raised so profoundly throughout this thread, I have a question.


How ethical is it for a person to try to dominate a new site with excessive bidding in an attempt to drive all customers away from bidding on items they are bidding on, which has the unintended by-product of ultimately keeping good customers from participating on the site and may in fact lead to a site's demise? [/quote]

You are absolutly cluless as to the bidder dynamics of a sucessfull PA site like it or not the Powerbidders contribut excesivly to the profitability of a sucessful PA site. If you were so concerned about bidders over paying (yes like that is every PA sites owners biggest problem LOL) then you freeze the bidder from bidding once they hit the BIN price???

[quote]
While my junior partners try to keep on open mind and give people the benefit of the doubt,I personally disagree with them and find it very “insulting” that our ethics are being questioned in this matter. This is why I am posting a response directly. [/quote]


You ehtics are definitly in question, the fact is:

Your server glitch altered the outcome of an auction and you made decisions based upon who was involved and time of day and not based upon total un bias fairness.

You refunded bids of several other bidders in that very same auction. In fact you also refunded bids to the 3rd highest bidder (a PAW member at that) in that auction (who also had alot of bids invested).

[quote]
This will be my only post in this matter. I am extremely busy person with multiple interests and really do have time to even read this or other forums.[/quote]


WOW what arogance, This speakes volumes about this guys integrity, he obviously does not realize this is a service industry. Watch I am sure I will be banned shortly as well for speaking my mind. Since you claim you are too busy to deal with these situations I think PAW readers should take note of this, they already told me on the phone that they really did not care what PAW members thought as they only accounted for about 40 of there customers, what they did not consider is that maybe a small portion of the customers are PAW members, but a larger portion are PAW readers. PAW admin has made it very clear that auctions with these types of glitches need to be voided and since they obviously could careless other bidders should take note and maybe avoid sites like these.


Lets take this integrity thing a bit farther, on Oct 8th I bid on 4 auctions all using the autobidder, this is when I discovered the issue of their systems abiliity to take more bids from one autobidder over the other, I even discsused it with their programer and parnters both of which agreed that it created an very unfair playng field, They asked me what should be done and I told them that All auctions that were affected by this should be canceled, seems that they only refunded my bids and did not cancel all auctions meaning even though I won the auction and on the surface to me it was canceled they only did this to 2 of my 4 auctions when infact most auctions were affected by this so other bidders were using more bids than others without realizing it (they did refund my bids from all 4 auctions). They neglected to do the right thing and cancel all affected auctions. I also wonder since my bids were returned did they return the bids of the others involved in those auctions??? PLEASE SPEAK UP IF YOU WERE INVOLVED. These auctions included

32" LCD TV
Ipad
Nikon Digital Camera
$100 Bestbuy GC

If you bid on any of these all your bids should have been refunded.


Admin maybe this auction site should be moved to the RED FLAG section considering that they do not conform to PAW's standard of fairness.


I know you are too busy to read this forum and that you could careless what these forum members or admin think you have made that clear, my advice to you is you better start careing and quick, if you are only willing to listen to government reglatory agencies we can arrange that too. I also assume that since you are auctioning/selling travel that you are licensed and regulated by that industry as well for which they too have an ethical standard that you need to live upto and abide by, you may want to be careful what you ask for as the State of Florida is very proactive against corrupt PA sites operating out of their state. I would suggest that you reconsider and reavaluate this situation immediatly as I will not stand idle to this unethical arogance, you have vividly displayed.

Edited by realbidtowin, 13 October 2010 - 11:13 PM.


#27

IceDragon
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Call it what you wish technically it may have not been a malfunction, however it was a server-side event (a glitch as you put it) that artificially and forever changed the outcome of an auction, in the PA world regardless when server side issues occur that alter the outcome of an auction ALL auctions should be voided.





Are you kidding us this in this game the rules have to be the same for all you cannot make judgements based upon how many bidders were involved. in fact you claim there were 5 IP's logged on others could have lost money considering they had bids already placed and since the two as you say active bidders were in autobidder war they may have been waiting to re-enter the auction once one dropped out. Your dicisions have to be the same regardless of how many or the time of day as we trust you with our money we also have to trust your fairness and you have clearly disclosed that you have double standards.



Why are you embelishing the truth that was a flat out lie which I can prove I was no where near double retail in fact I was only about 20% above it. Regardless how much someone hsa bid should have no impact on a decision of fairness.





How is it you are able to predict the outcome of an auction before it happens. so your justification is you were saving them money. 1st off you need to learn why PB's overpay in the 1st place, it is not to win an perticular item, there is a point in an auction that you bid simply to beat another bidder at all cost as this is an investment in your future, so realistically since the auction was abruptly stopped by a server-side issue that money was wasted as neither were able to accomplish thier goal.





The only reason you offered the so called loser a Macbok was becasue it was cheaper for you, SO everyone involed in the auctioin was given a concession except the so called winner.





Yes you offered the other guy a macbook after he called you and complained and when he did you also banned his IP becasue he was upset that he lost alot of money because of this server side error. I did not spend the kind of money I do to allow the loser to also win the item, this is also a corrupt decision.




Holy sh*t can you belive that statement, that is the craziest thing I have ever heard a PA owner say, talk about greedy. obviously he could careless anout honesty, or fairness... Hello this convienient glitch was caused by you...

Seems to me your only concern is your profit not your integrity. See you again admit there was a glitch, and yes we do expect you to refund ALL participants, it is clear that you are not accountable for your own sites actions and are willing to achieve that profit regardless of integrity, honesty and fainess. This also shows that your decisions are greed based.




That was one of the dumbest statements I thing I have ever read on here, what code of ethics are the PB's breaking????????



You are absolutly cluless as to the bidder dynamics of a sucessfull PA site like it or not the Powerbidders contribut excesivly to the profitability of a sucessful PA site. If you were so concerned about bidders over paying (yes like that is every PA sites owners biggest problem LOL) then you freeze the bidder from bidding once they hit the BIN price???




You ehtics are definitly in question, the fact is:

Your server glitch altered the outcome of an auction and you made decisions based upon who was involved and time of day and not based upon total un bias fairness.

You refunded bids of several other bidders in that very same auction. In fact you also refunded bids to the 3rd highest bidder (a PAW member at that) in that auction (who also had alot of bids invested).




WOW what arogance, This speakes volumes about this guys integrity, he obviously does not realize this is a service industry. Watch I am sure I will be banned shortly as well for speaking my mind. Since you claim you are too busy to deal with these situations I think PAW readers should take note of this, they already told me on the phone that they really did not care what PAW members thought as they only accounted for about 40 of there customers, what they did not consider is that maybe a small portion of the customers are PAW members, but a larger portion are PAW readers. PAW admin has made it very clear that auctions with these types of glitches need to be voided and since they obviously could careless other bidders should take note and maybe avoid sites like these.


Lets take this integrity thing a bit farther, on Oct 8th I bid on 4 auctions all using the autobidder, this is when I discovered the issue of their systems abiliity to take more bids from one autobidder over the other, I even discsused it with their programer and parnters both of which agreed that it created an very unfair playng field, They asked me what should be done and I told them that All auctions that were affected by this should be canceled, seems that they only refunded my bids and did not cancel all auctions meaning even though I won the auction and on the surface to me it was canceled they only did this to 2 of my 4 auctions when infact most auctions were affected by this so other bidders were using more bids than others without realizing it (they did refund my bids from all 4 auctions). They neglected to do the right thing and cancel all affected auctions. I also wonder since my bids were returned did they return the bids of the others involved in those auctions??? PLEASE SPEAK UP IF YOU WERE INVOLVED. These auctions included

32" LCD TV
Ipad
Nikon Digital Camera
$100 Bestbuy GC

If you bid on any of these all your bids should have been refunded.


Admin maybe this auction site should be moved to the RED FLAG section considering that they do not conform to PAW's standard of fairness.


I know you are too busy to read this forum and that you could careless what these forum members or admin think you have made that clear, my advice to you is you better start careing and quick, if you are only willing to listen to government reglatory agencies we can arrange that too. I also assume that since you are auctioning/selling travel that you are licensed and regulated by that industry as well for which they too have an ethical standard that you need to live upto and abide by, you may want to be careful what you ask for as the State of Florida is very proactive against corrupt PA sites operating out of their state. I would suggest that you reconsider and reavaluate this situation immediatly as I will not stand idle to this unethical arogance, you have vividly displayed.



I guess I will throw my two cents in as well. This alleged partner stated that two powerbidders were the only two involved in this auction at the end. I am sorry but how did you come to the conclusion that Pa****He** was a powerbidder? Because of one auction? I also am presuming that you in fact know each and every PowerBidders identity? To make such a vague statement when in fact not many, if any of us recognize that name as being a PB anywhere, how is it that you call them out as one?
Does it matter who I am?

#28

realbidtowin
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I guess I will throw my two cents in as well. This alleged partner stated that two powerbidders were the only two involved in this auction at the end. I am sorry but how did you come to the conclusion that Pa****He** was a powerbidder? Because of one auction? I also am presuming that you in fact know each and every PowerBidders identity? To make such a vague statement when in fact not many, if any of us recognize that name as being a PB anywhere, how is it that you call them out as one?



Thanks for your input you are right I have never seen this guy either for all I know he could have been a shill (only a wild guess not fact based), It is clear that decisions are based upon profit not ethics

#29

cantthinkofone
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......................................
Yes you offered the other guy a macbook........................................ ......................................... because of this server side error. I did not spend the kind of money I do to allow the loser to also win the item, this is also a corrupt decision.
................................................................................
Lets take this integrity thing a bit farther, on Oct 8th I bid on 4 auctions all using the autobidder, this is when I discovered the issue of their systems abiliity to take more bids from one autobidder over the other, I even ..............................................................


Holy Cow!!!! You, realbidtowin, may be one of the biggest jerks I have ever seen.
I have highlighted 2 of your statements above by using bold lettering.
Regarding the first, man you are a jerk, I think it speaks for itself.
Regarding the second, aren't their win limits 3 per day. So you had 4 auctions going same day and running simultaneously using autobidder. Hmmmmm. What did you say earlier about how ethical you are using an example of win limits on Sellmoo. Enough said.
What I said earlier regarding your savvy & intelligence, scratch that. I can point to so many examples in your previous post.

#30

realbidtowin
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Holy Cow!!!! You, realbidtowin, may be one of the biggest jerks I have ever seen.
I have highlighted 2 of your statements above by using bold lettering.
Regarding the first, man you are a jerk, I think it speaks for itself.
Regarding the second, aren't their win limits 3 per day. So you had 4 auctions going same day and running simultaneously using autobidder. Hmmmmm. What did you say earlier about how ethical you are using an example of win limits on Sellmoo. Enough said.
What I said earlier regarding your savvy & intelligence, scratch that. I can point to so many examples in your previous post.


So obviously you think 2nd place should also get the prize, how old are you? This strategy is used my many bidders at many levels. So bidding to beat a perticular competitor makes me a jerk, I can live with that, very interesting concept though, i guess there are many many jerks out there then.

This is what happens when idiots that have no clue to the facts try to butt in, I did not say I won 4 auctions I said I bid on 4 auctions, where did I say I had 4 running simultaneously? however all 4 auction had the same issues, my point of referencing this was to demonstrate that they refunded me, claimed to have canceld them but did not and they obviously did not deliver the won items in 3 cases but they returned my bids and kept everyone elses, that was the case in 2 out of 4 and liklely all.

Clearly you hate powerbidders so bad that you too are blinded by that. So I am assuming that you agree with their actions to return some bidders bids and not others, and that when a glitch happens that alters the outcome of an auction their decisions should be based upon profits 1st which they clealy refer too?

In talking to their programmer and one of the partners they both disclosed that this software is full of bugs and it is so bad they are considering starting over, unfortunatly there accountability is selective based upon their profits.

Edited by realbidtowin, 14 October 2010 - 01:05 AM.


#31

cantthinkofone
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So obviously you think 2nd place should also get the prize, how old are you? This strategy is used my many bidders at many levels. So bidding to beat a perticular competitor makes me a jerk, I can live with that, very interesting concept though, i guess there are many many jerks out there then.

This is what happens when idiots that have no clue to the facts try to butt in, I did not say I won 4 auctions I said I bid on 4 auctions, where did I say I had 4 running simultaneously? however all 4 auction had the same issues, my point of referencing this was to demonstrate that they refunded me, claimed to have canceld them but did not and they obviously did not deliver the won items in 3 cases but they returned my bids and kept everyone elses, that was the case in 2 out of 4 and liklely all.

Clearly you hate powerbidders so bad that you too are blinded by that. So I am assuming that you agree with their actions to return some bidders bids and not others, and that when a glitch happens that alters the outcome of an auction their decisions should be based upon profits 1st which they clealy refer too?

In talking to their programmer and one of the partners they both disclosed that this software is full of bugs and it is so bad they are considering starting over, unfortunatly there accountability is selective based upon their profits.



This issue isn't whether 2nd place should get the prize, the issue is why it would anger you so much that 2nd place was also awarded the prize in an isolated case with special circumstances. Do I hate powerbidders, not if they ply their trade for the right reason. But it is becoming increasingly obvious that in your case it is about your ego and wanting to destroy the other guys as much or more than it is about getting a great deal on the items.
As for the 4 auctions, I don't recall saying that you won them all. But since you admit to using autobidders can you honestly say that was not your hope or your intention? And no, you did not say that they ran simultaneously .... but I ask you, did they? If not, did 3 of them after you had already won 1 of them?
As for this pa's first priority being profit, I ask you, are they not a business? Is this not the purpose of a business? AND, other than ego and destroying the other guy, is this not also your first priority?
One more thing, how old am I. 52 with 2 grown children who are both successful in their own right. My daughter is a Hollywood actress whom you have undoubtedly seen a few times and my son a successful businessman.
As for me, idiot though I am, also a successful businessman. Currently semi-retired having sold my primary business a few years ago for a very, very substantial sum.

#32

realbidtowin
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This issue isn't whether 2nd place should get the prize, the issue is why it would anger you so much that 2nd place was also awarded the prize in an isolated case with special circumstances.


please elaborate on the SPECIAL circumstances their server lost power, thus the site went down so you are saying that this requires special resolve, I think PAW admin put it best all auctions should be void as that is the ONLY fair solution to all involved, and what about the bidders that recieved their bids back and the others that did not?? or is that ok too becasue this is SPECIAL?

He clearly disclosed that thier decision to not refund the bids of the two biggest bidders was based upon profits alone, obviously you condone that?



Do I hate powerbidders, not if they ply their trade for the right reason. But it is becoming increasingly obvious that in your case it is about your ego and wanting to destroy the other guys as much or more than it is about getting a great deal on the items.



It is pure startegy as if you allow that bidder to win he will always come after you this costing you more in the future, are you really that clueless???


As for the 4 auctions, I don't recall saying that you won them all. But since you admit to using autobidders can you honestly say that was not your hope or your intention?

NO becasue the limit was 3


I ask you, are they not a business? Is this not the purpose of a business? AND, other than ego and destroying the other guy, is this not also your first priority?


So you are suggesting like they did profits first honesty and ethics 2nd.


One more thing, how old am I. 52 with 2 grown children who are both successful in their own right. My daughter is a Hollywood actress whom you have undoubtedly seen a few times and my son a successful businessman.
As for me, idiot though I am, also a successful businessman. Currently semi-retired having sold my primary business a few years ago for a very, very substantial sum.


What the hell do your kids have to do with anything?? Are you trying to impress me. Clearly all that have posted with exception of you agree that auctions with these types of circumstances need to be voided as that is the only fair response. You talk like you are one of their shills, Are you??

Had this auction ended with me having only a few bids placed it would have been canceled and I have been there and done that I have had atleast 50 auctions canceled for this same situation most with me being in a profitable position. Obviously uou want to try and pick rediculas fights on subjects you have no knowledge ofm if you are 52 start acting like it,

Again with ethics like they have demonstrated auction sites like this should be red flagged and bidders should be careful

#33

PennyAuctionWatch
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Why are you refunding bids to one and not all and giving two bidders an item when there should have only been one winner (due to the glitch the auction should have been invalidated and all bids refunded), and there were other bidders bidding in this item? How does Bid-to-win know that another bidder got a bid refund? How can you possibly predict whether or not another bidder, or "powerbidder" may have still come on and bid?

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Lets take this integrity thing a bit farther, on Oct 8th I bid on 4 auctions all using the autobidder, this is when I discovered the issue of their systems abiliity to take more bids from one autobidder over the other, I even discsused it with their programer and parnters both of which agreed that it created an very unfair playng field, They asked me what should be done and I told them that All auctions that were affected by this should be canceled, seems that they only refunded my bids and did not cancel all auctions meaning even though I won the auction and on the surface to me it was canceled they only did this to 2 of my 4 auctions when infact most auctions were affected by this so other bidders were using more bids than others without realizing it (they did refund my bids from all 4 auctions). They neglected to do the right thing and cancel all affected auctions. I also wonder since my bids were returned did they return the bids of the others involved in those auctions??? PLEASE SPEAK UP IF YOU WERE INVOLVED. These auctions included

32" LCD TV
Ipad
Nikon Digital Camera
$100 Bestbuy GC

If you bid on any of these all your bids should have been refunded.


Something doesn't seem right here...

Edited by PennyAuctionWatch, 14 October 2010 - 03:42 AM.

I believe that the more penny auction bidders that come together and post their honest experiences, exposing the shady-scam penny auction sites, the less and less shady-scam sites will stop being the majority in the penny auction industry. Stand with me.

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#34

cantthinkofone
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please elaborate on the SPECIAL circumstances their server lost power, thus the site went down so you are saying that this requires special resolve, I think PAW admin put it best all auctions should be void as that is the ONLY fair solution to all involved, and what about the bidders that recieved their bids back and the others that did not?? or is that ok too becasue this is SPECIAL?

He clearly disclosed that thier decision to not refund the bids of the two biggest bidders was based upon profits alone, obviously you condone that?



It is pure startegy as if you allow that bidder to win he will always come after you this costing you more in the future, are you really that clueless???

NO becasue the limit was 3




So you are suggesting like they did profits first honesty and ethics 2nd.




What the hell do your kids have to do with anything?? Are you trying to impress me. Clearly all that have posted with exception of you agree that auctions with these types of circumstances need to be voided as that is the only fair response. You talk like you are one of their shills, Are you??

Had this auction ended with me having only a few bids placed it would have been canceled and I have been there and done that I have had atleast 50 auctions canceled for this same situation most with me being in a profitable position. Obviously uou want to try and pick rediculas fights on subjects you have no knowledge ofm if you are 52 start acting like it,

Again with ethics like they have demonstrated auction sites like this should be red flagged and bidders should be careful


Why complain that the other bidder also received a prize in this instance? I fully understand your strategy of winning at all costs. The fact is that you did win that auction and I'm sure that the 2nd place bidder is fully aware of this. Your objective was achieved. I am quite certain that bidder will not bid against you in the future, neither will anyone else who witnessed that auction or sees the result of that auction. That bidder undoubtedly lost his butt, so why must you begrudge his also being given the computer.
You are right to enjoy winning. Taking pleasure in winning is natural, it is fun
and it is satisfying. But to take pleasure in the other guy losing should not be any of these things, it is sick.

#35

realbidtowin
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Why are you refunding bids to one and not all and giving two bidders an item when there should have only been one winner (due to the glitch the auction should have been invalidated and all bids refunded), and there were other bidders bidding in this item? How does Bid-to-win know that another bidder got a bid refund? How can you possibly predict whether or not another bidder, or "powerbidder" may have still come on and bid?

Guidelines for Penny Auction Site Owners



Something doesn't seem right here...



You are so right, i discovered all this when I called the next morning after the Macbook auction and they told me that they refunded bids back to several un-named bidders and then they did a partial refund to one of the larger bidders. In addition they told me that the opposing bidder to me called all irate wanting his bids refunded, they refused and they made the consession at that time to also award him the item as well to appease him. This whole thing stinks. It has been two days and they have yet to contact me directly regarding this final decision. Also interesting when I called around 10:30 am they told me the Macbook had already shipped, I calles BS on that turns out it was not shipped. This whole thing stinks.

The issue I refer to on thise earlier 4 auctions was not a small issue that glitch resulted in many bidder using more bids that others probably since the begining, i have it documented on video as well as I was on the phone with them and they saw it in real time them selves. Two of those 4 auctions are still on the ended list the other two have been disguised.

#36

SavvyAussie
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From the site's Terms & Conditions:

YOUR USE OF VACATION4PENNIES IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THIS WEBSITE, INCLUDING THE SERVICE AND SOFTWARE, IS PROVIDED BY QUIBIDS LLC ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS.

What's the connection to QuiBids?


#37

NewComer
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The choice to red flag this is yours. You own this forum.

The business decision to award 2 MacBooks instead of one is ours as we own our business.

Since bidtowin does not own our company either it seems inappropriate that his opinion of what we have done and or have not done for other people should not be taken as gospel. He has no idea exactly of all the facts and to what extent we have gone through for other people. He simply is a customer not an employee.

No one was cheated out of any money in this auction whatsoever. Do you see anyone complaining but him? He is receiving his win. If we decide to give out a 100 MacBooks to 100 people and not to all our customers that would also be our choice. Would you still "red flag" us in your forum?

We will not allow a private FORUM owner, like yourself, to ever dictate policy to a private SITE owner, like ourselves. It is not your company. Likewise we as a site owner have absolutely no standing to dictate policy to you a forum owner. We would never attempt it.

There is a line neither one of us should cross.

I can understand if people where cheated in our auction, but that wasn't the case at all and we are in contact will all people who had a dime at stake in that auction.

You cannot tell us that we MUST CANCEL and void an auction since it is strictly your opinion of how we conduct our site. That is like us telling you what you must put in your forum.

Would you be offended if I told you you must discontinue to have penny auction sponsors advertising on your site if you are to truly be considered an objective source of information? Of course you would be. It is your site and we have no business dictating policy on how you run your company.
You are entitled to have business make you a few dollars and so are we.

If someone was hurt or cheated you may have had a valid point. But as you can see they only complainer is Bid to Win who is getting his MacBook, but PREFERS a refund because he overbidded by so much in order to intimidate other buyers.

If you condone his actions and support them then you are basically saying that his tactics are perfectly acceptable and ETHICAL.

Why does bid to wins even need to know if we refunded people bids or not? He won his auction. Am I to believe that he is such a wonderful human being that he really cares about other people?

He cares so much that he will RUTHLESSLY do everything is his power to scare them away from bidding against him.


Are you sure you want to be seen as siding with this guy Amanda?

I would think about it. If you take a poll I am sure most people would agree with us and not him.

Thanks

Edited by NewComer, 14 October 2010 - 04:27 AM.


#38

PennyAuctionWatch
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I'm not telling you or dictating how you should run your business, we're just reporting user experiences and how sites are run for users to determine where they want to spend their money. Your policy shows how people will be treated if/when this incident happens in the future, so it's up to them if they want to try your site. However, I will state my opinion again you cannot predict who else could have come back and bid or what would have happened.

If your concern is due to users already "showing their hands as powerbidders" if you were to refund them you could, only a thought, change the usernames of all involved /or ban/ so they'd have to re-spend to gain a reputation. Again, not dictating only a thought.

But if you did cancel the other auctions and only refund bidtowin, well that IS cheating in my opinion.

Edited by PennyAuctionWatch, 14 October 2010 - 04:12 PM.

I believe that the more penny auction bidders that come together and post their honest experiences, exposing the shady-scam penny auction sites, the less and less shady-scam sites will stop being the majority in the penny auction industry. Stand with me.

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#39

oldschmoop
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I have not even tried to bid on this website yet. I've decided I need to regroup and be a bit more cautious before I start bidding on a site I'm not familiar with. I've done a spreadsheet to track the winners. The win limits are: 3 wins per day, 8 wins per 28 days, Only one (1) $1000 win per 28 days

Why then were the following allowed to happen?

1) A bidder won 5 auctions on Oct. 4 (limit is 3 per day)
2) Another bidder won 4 auctions on Oct. 4 (limit is 3 per day)
3) A bidder won 1 auction on Oct. 1, 2 auctions on Oct. 3, 6 auctions on Oct. 4 (limit is 3 per day) and 1 auction on Oct. 7 for a total of 10 auctions over 7 days (limit is 8 wins per 28 days)
4) A bidder won 1 auction on Oct. 2, 2 auctions on Oct. 3, 2 auctions on Oct. 4, 2 auctions on Oct. 7, 1 auction on Oct. 8 for a total of 8 auctions. Why then was this bidder allowed to win another auction on Oct. 11? (limit is 8 wins per 28 days)

I actually double checked to make sure these figures were correct. These are 4 separate bidders. Just wondering...

Edited by oldschmoop, 14 October 2010 - 05:08 PM.
typo


#40

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To Amanda,


Thanks for the reply.


As a general rule you would be correct in your assessment. However the circumstances briefly are as follows.


This was the last auction of the night and 87 signed on users at 9PM dwindled to 5 IP addresses by midnight. 2 of those 3 people were the actual bidders and had the item bid up to $106.00. The third person was actively bidding until the $40 price range an hour earlier but “stopped” once realbidtowin signed on and started bidding. She immediately emailed us and told us that she would never had bid had she know he was allowed, “because he can't be beaten” After a few emails back and forth with her we credited her account with some bids as we felt part of her argument had strong merit and wanted to do the right thing by her. She made it clear in her emails she was not going to do battle with him. So this left the 2 bidders only as active participants.


The two bidders continued to battle back and forth for I believe at least 45 minutes with absolutely no sign of stopping. Again no new bidders ever joined in or logged in. When the auction abruptly ended at the $106 mark due to the brief outage we simply decided to award both parties the MacBook. In the alternative, as our rules stipulate, we could have quickly emailed both parties bidding, then restarted the auction and added 2 minutes to the clock and allowed these two stubborn bidders to continue to go at it until they spent thousands more trying to prove to each other that “there is no beating me” and then this thread would never have had basis to be started in the first place.


In regards to the other accusations, verbal attacks, threats, “so-called stating of facts” and comments made by bid to win, all I can say is consider the source. Which is this case is very self-serving.


Don't you believe at least one other person would have come forward if they felt they were cheated out of money in any of our auctions?


Two terms come to mind here. One is “misdirection” made popular by Adolf Hitler in WWII.
The other is “lets stir up a hornet's nest” and see how much trouble or noise we can make to support our cause. These are the things this person is trying to do and misusing your forum as a foundation to launch his unjustified grievances.


To oldscmoop – we are not counting bid packs as item wins, however there is a possibility that a few people have gotten by us and we thank you for pointing this out to us.


To bid to win all I can say is this.


“ Your behavior is childish and immature. Your tactics devious and void of credibility. You carried on so much the other night when our autobidder cheated you out of a grand total of possibly 8 or 9 bids, by bidding first, from the hundreds, if not thousands of bids, that you placed that we refunded you all your money as you insisted upon rather than just give you back the small amount of bids you were accidentally cheated out of. Now you come back after the autobidder is fixed perfectly and want a refund for overbidding again.
Your batting 2 for 2. You have been on our site twice. Both times overbidding items to establish your reputation. However this time you have no basis for demanding a refund. You complaining that we have awarded the underbidder a laptop is something that is incomprehensible to most people. A decent person would be happy that both bidders won the item and no one was cheated. But not you.
I strongly recommend you examine your value system. You cry foul using words such as “ethics” and “greed” while you attempt to undermine any bidder's chance to win an item on a site by driving fear into them of bidding against you. Sort of like Castro yelling “freedom, revolution!” and then installing a communist regime. That my friend is pure greed.”


In closing – I am sort of glad now that PAW has moved this item to their red flag section. I believe people are intelligent enough to realize that our site is a fair one and the publicity can only help.


I have said it before, but this time I mean it. This is MY LAST post in this thread. So please people do not get offended if we do not address anymore comments left. You can always use the contact link on our website if you need to get in touch with us.


Thanks




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