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guns4pennies.com a firearms and shooting accessories penny auction site

Started by guns4pennies.com , Jun 11 2011 04:16 AM
firearms guns outdoors shooting weapons

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#1

guns4pennies.com
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Hello all! We're not new, having been conducting auctions since October, but we're new to pennyauctionwatch.com so an introduction is in order.

Guns4Pennies.com allows you to bid on firearms in that wonderful format you know and love, the penny auction.

We've conducted almost 1,500 auctions at this point and plan to be here for thousands more. You can see our advertisements in Guns & Ammo, Shotgun News, Gun Digest, and later this month Handguns and Rifle Shooter magazines. An investment like that shows you we're serious about being here for the long haul.

We use no reserves on our auctions. We don't believe in making people pay to bid with no possibility of winning, which is how we view reserves, so we're willing to take the risk of items selling low to provide you a better auction experience. If that item sells for $0.03, like a recent pistol did, then that auction stands and the winner will receive it.

Veteran owned and operated, we're serious about customer service. If you call or email us with a customer service issue, you'll speak directly to the owner.

If you're ready to try a penny auction experience with more of a bang, check us out at Guns4Pennies.com

Take care, good luck, and happy bidding!

#2

LadyK
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Hi;

I have a question.... Under your TERMS... this is stated:

All FFL items are transferred from the selling FFL dealer to an FFL dealer of the winners choice. The transfer will come in the winners name, not anyone else’s and the FFL holder will be of the winner's name and address so there are not any straw purchases.

# 1. So "YOU" are "NOT" an FFL dealer? So if I understand this correctly, YOU are buying the guns from an FFL dealer and having them sent to OUR FFL dealer of choice... Is that right?

If this is right.... You go buy a gun - transfer it into YOUR name, then have that FFL dealer send it to our FFL dealer? EXPLAIN please...


# 2. Please clarify what you mean by: FFL holder will be of the WINNERS NAME and ADDRESS so there are not any straw purchases...

I'm not an FFL holder... so how can the WINNERS NAME and ADDRESS be the FFL holder?

You also have stated under your TERMS:

The user must actively confirm and pay the total price for the win to the seller / FFL dealer by following the steps indicated on that page or elsewhere if indicated. Once the winner has confirmed, the win is accepted. After confirming the win and paying the amount due, the winner will receive a confirmation e-mail from Guns4Pennies. Subsequently the item will be delivered to the winner (subject to the remedies for breach of a Term set out in this Agreement) or transferred to the FFL dealer of their choice. If an auction win has not been confirmed by the winner and paid within 7 Days of the auction end time, Guns4Pennies reserves the right to withdraw the offer to conclude a contract. If an auctions FFL documentation has not been received within 30 days of the auction end time, Guns4Pennies reserves the right to withdraw the offer to conclude a contract. If Guns4Pennies withdraws the offer, the winner's right to pay for and receive delivery of an item will be permanently revoked. In this instance, the bids placed in that auction are non-refundable.

What is = Subject to the remedies for BREACH of a TERM set out in this Agreement.... MEAN?

Again... you have written:

Once the winners account is verified to be fully funded, verification of all payments and FFL documents received if applicable the seller will be notified by e-mail regarding instructions for delivery. Unless otherwise stated, delivery will be made directly from our supplier or from our warehouse to the address provided by You.


So again I have to ask..... YOU are NOT the FFL dealer and do not have these items in your possession for resell... Unlike another GUN penny auction that is a sporting goods store and has the FFL license to resell the guns they offer.... If I understand you are using DEALERS (Third Parties) to send these items out... Is that correct?

Please understand I'm just trying to get all the FACTS because this is an extremely monitored state regulated government enforced product line you are offering....

Thanks and looking forward to your reply!

LK

#3

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Hi LadyK, glad to clear up any confusion.

All FFL items are transferred from the selling FFL dealer to an FFL dealer of the winners choice. The transfer will come in the winners name, not anyone else’s and the FFL holder will be of the winner's name and address so there are not any straw purchases.

# 1. So "YOU" are "NOT" an FFL dealer? So if I understand this correctly, YOU are buying the guns from an FFL dealer and having them sent to OUR FFL dealer of choice... Is that right?

If this is right.... You go buy a gun - transfer it into YOUR name, then have that FFL dealer send it to our FFL dealer? EXPLAIN please...

Correct on some points. We are not an FFL dealer, we use several FFL dealers to supply the firearms for the auctions, allowing us to offering hard to get items that a single dealer may not have in stock. However, they are not transferred in our name first then transferred to your dealer, they are sent directly from the dealers stock to your FFL holder. As a non-FFL holder it would be illegal if we received them first and then sold them to you, as we would be acting as a dealer. This is stated very clearly in the second paragraph of our terms, where it states "At no time does Guns4Pennies participate in the purchase of, take payment for, takes possession of, or transfers any of the auctioned items. We are only acting as the auctioneer, verifying the item is paid for and making sure the auction winner receives the item. We follow all Federal, state, and local laws in reference to all firearms laws." We sell bids and provide the auction environment. When the auction is won, an invoice is sent to the winner and they pay the dealer the final auction price, constituting the legal purchase of the firearm. This is the method that has been approved by the BATFE which allows guns4pennies to operate in this way.


# 2. Please clarify what you mean by: FFL holder will be of the WINNERS NAME and ADDRESS so there are not any straw purchases...

I'm not an FFL holder... so how can the WINNERS NAME and ADDRESS be the FFL holder?

That is actually a typo and will be corrected. Somehow the word NOTIFIED was skipped. The statement should read "FFL holder will be notified of the". This ensures that only the person who has registered with G4P will be able to receive the firearms from their FFL holder, preventing a prohibited person from winning and attempting to have a straw buyer actually receive the firearm.


You also have stated under your TERMS:

The user must actively confirm and pay the total price for the win to the seller / FFL dealer by following the steps indicated on that page or elsewhere if indicated. Once the winner has confirmed, the win is accepted. After confirming the win and paying the amount due, the winner will receive a confirmation e-mail from Guns4Pennies. Subsequently the item will be delivered to the winner (subject to the remedies for breach of a Term set out in this Agreement) or transferred to the FFL dealer of their choice. If an auction win has not been confirmed by the winner and paid within 7 Days of the auction end time, Guns4Pennies reserves the right to withdraw the offer to conclude a contract. If an auctions FFL documentation has not been received within 30 days of the auction end time, Guns4Pennies reserves the right to withdraw the offer to conclude a contract. If Guns4Pennies withdraws the offer, the winner's right to pay for and receive delivery of an item will be permanently revoked. In this instance, the bids placed in that auction are non-refundable.

What is = Subject to the remedies for BREACH of a TERM set out in this Agreement.... MEAN?

This covers areas where there has been a breach of the terms and we must take action to resolve the issue. Examples of this include:

registering with an inappropriate or offensive user name, where the remedy set out allows G4P to change the name

Registering with false information where the remedy set out is cancellation and possible reporting to authorities

Use of unauthorized third party bidding software where the remedy set out is temporary or permanent disqualification of the user’s account

Any customer service issue brought to our attention will be responded to within 2 business days.



Again... you have written:

Once the winners account is verified to be fully funded, verification of all payments and FFL documents received if applicable the seller will be notified by e-mail regarding instructions for delivery. Unless otherwise stated, delivery will be made directly from our supplier or from our warehouse to the address provided by You.


So again I have to ask..... YOU are NOT the FFL dealer and do not have these items in your possession for resell... Unlike another GUN penny auction that is a sporting goods store and has the FFL license to resell the guns they offer.... If I understand you are using DEALERS (Third Parties) to send these items out... Is that correct?

Please understand I'm just trying to get all the FACTS because this is an extremely monitored state regulated government enforced product line you are offering....


And I again have to simply direct you to paragraph 2 of the terms where it is made very clear that we are not the FFL dealer. This has worked for us for just shy of 1500 auctions to date, outlasting many other sites attempting to offer this service, many of whom were also FFL holders. I'm aware of the other auction you're talking about as I've seen you bid there, and wish them well because the market can certainly support several auctions of this type, however they are still very very new, have a reserve listed on the only firearm they have up at the moment, and are accepting Paypal as their payment processor. That last point is important because when their business picks up and Paypal takes a look and realizes firearms are involved they will freeze their funds and shut down the account. That's happened with multiple other firearms penny auctions, and is the reason many of them are no longer in operation.

Considering how many Federal, state, and local law enforcement officers we have as customers, we wouldn't still be in operation if there was any legal grey area, and we wouldn't be as successful as we are if it was a distinct business disadvantage to use other dealers. We are well aware of the laws and enforcement in this industry and have no intention of violating any of them. If we were trying to operate in an improper manner we certainly wouldn't be advertising in national magazines like we are and drawing attention to ourselves. In fact, as we state in the terms, should a user attempt to use our site to perform an illegal act or requests that we do so, they will be reported to BATFE and their state and local law enforcement agencies.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Take care and happy bidding!


#4

thisonesmine
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How'd you get such huge traffic right off the bat? You must have a TON invested in advertising. Odd that you'd invest so much in advertising, but nothing in a script. Interesting. I'd love to know your secret.

#5

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We have invested huge in advertising recently, as we now appear in 5 major national magazines (Guns & Ammo, Shotgun News, Gun Digest, Handguns, Rifle Shooter), but it's not right off the bat. We've been conducting auctions since October and had the site up since July. We certainly didn't have anywhere near this traffic when we first started, but it's been building steadily.

#6

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We have invested huge in advertising recently, as we now appear in 5 major national magazines (Guns & Ammo, Shotgun News, Gun Digest, Handguns, Rifle Shooter), but it's not right off the bat. We've been conducting auctions since October and had the site up since July. We certainly didn't have anywhere near this traffic when we first started, but it's been building steadily.


I'm interested to see those ads. Are the ads in the June issues?

This was one of your first auctions: http://www.guns4penn.../FN-SLP-MK1-936. A 30 something dollar one a few auctions later. Seems as if you've always had high traffic.

#7

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Look at the auction ID, that was our 936th auction, we simply pulled down the others off the completed auctions page because they require so much server space.

To save you a few bucks at the news stand, here are some of the ads.
Posted Image
http://i1100.photobu...ies/photo37.jpg

And as a special treat, here's the advance copy of Handguns which isn't even on the shelves yet.
Posted Image

#8

thisonesmine
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That's very cool. I've never seen a PA ad in a magazine.

#9

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Thanks! Unfortunately as we all know, many people simply don't understand or trust PA's. We're serious about this business, and as monumentously expensive as this advertising is, it serves a dual role. It helps us bring in new customers, but we've also chosen magazines which are known to be trustworthy. Intermedia Outdoors which owns several won't even allow you to advertise until they've taken a look at the business because they know advertising poor businesses would reflect badly on them. As soon as we hit the 1 year mark we're also going to pursue Better Business Bureau accreditation.

#10

LadyK
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I'm aware of the other auction you're talking about as I've seen you bid there, and wish them well because the market can certainly support several auctions of this type, however they are still very very new, have a reserve listed on the only firearm they have up at the moment, and are accepting Paypal as their payment processor. That last point is important because when their business picks up and Paypal takes a look and realizes firearms are involved they will freeze their funds and shut down the account. That's happened with multiple other firearms penny auctions, and is the reason many of them are no longer in operation.

Considering how many Federal, state, and local law enforcement officers we have as customers, we wouldn't still be in operation if there was any legal grey area, and we wouldn't be as successful as we are if it was a distinct business disadvantage to use other dealers. We are well aware of the laws and enforcement in this industry and have no intention of violating any of them. If we were trying to operate in an improper manner we certainly wouldn't be advertising in national magazines like we are and drawing attention to ourselves. In fact, as we state in the terms, should a user attempt to use our site to perform an illegal act or requests that we do so, they will be reported to BATFE and their state and local law enforcement agencies.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Take care and happy bidding!



Awesome I've been seen somewhere....LOL - All kidding aside I am glad you are taking your business very serious. Yes I have bid on several other sites that offer not only GUNS but other outdoor products. THREE of them have since closed down for unknown reasons and ONE didn't even open after advertising. The site you mentioned seeing me on is a brand new outdoor adventure product line site.... I'm having some great success there and have all ready received all my wins while waiting for my limit hold to be released.

As for YOUR SITE.... I've been registered there for a little bit now, but have not yet purchased bids. Obviously I did NOT register under the name LadyK but under another one of my bidding names that I do use on some other sites... I do like my privacy - sometimes! :wink:

Your site has MANY names I have never seen, and not really understanding your terms made me wonder. I had also never seen you post on and forums or do any advertising online etc. until NOW.. With the other sites of this nature opening and closing you can see my reluctance to want to invest especially with all the names that you never see anywhere else. But then again "I" myself registered under a name most of the other bidders would not know either. The competition on your site seems pretty heavy but I've been watching and you do have some sweetspots I may try to take advantage of.

Trust me... I'll eventually HAVE to buy bids as my Hubby and Son have seen me peeking at your site more often and now have made a list of WANTS big time... LOL

Thank you for coming back and answering my questions I appreciate that. :flowers:

LK

Edited by LadyK, 13 June 2011 - 05:22 AM.
Correction/Add


#11

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My pleasure, you took the time to check us out and research, and it would have been rude not to respond. You're right about us not posting much online, but that's something we're going to work on, as these sights are a wonderful way to reach people who already understand the concept of penny auctions. So many people simply don't grasp how they work, and won't take the time to learn before making a snap judgement that it's to good to be true, so it's nice dealing with people who already know about PAs.

Unfortunately I've probably seen each of the sights you're talking about, and it's been tough watching some of them fail because the gun business really is small and personal, and we don't want to see anyone's hard work go to waste. Some have failed due to their business practices, some because of their Reserves policy, but ultimately firearms penny auctions are a niche market in what's already a niche market, where it is very hard to succeed. That's why we treat this so seriously, and are so focused on customer service and providing a fair and enjoyable auction environment. There is simply no way to succeed otherwise.

#12

LadyK
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Two Thumbs Up!

#13

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I've known about the site for some time, but have never found reason to join until now. Anyways, I'm bidding as we speak on 2 guns at the same time, but my problem is that I'm looking at how the bid buddy system with and it seems flawed. It's cool that you have it set for 1 second then activate to ward off sniping a bit, BUT... the big problem is that the bid system is not going in order. Like it's randomly selecting from those with the bidbuddy activated as opposed to taking turns in the order they were placed. This is very uncomfortable to me because when I see my name, person b, me, person c, me, etc. but ALL on bidbuddy, it's like I'm spending twice the bids as opposed to others. Can you explain your bidbuddy system a little?
Disclaimer: All of the text stated above is MY own personal opinion... so for those of you who seem to always find something or have something negative to say about anything I seem to type... :lurk5:

You can't control the flock without the fear of the wolf.
---

#14

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Proto you are not alone.... I've been watching a lot lately and I noticed the same thing... WoW... So I don't need new glasses! Thanks for confirming what I was seeing... 8)

#15

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After these 3 I probably won't be back. The variety is great, but there just isn't enough control. fighting bidbuddies activate at random order, timers always go back up to 30 seconds. Meaning every 150 or so bids on auto, no matter what give 1000s of people going through magazines and that already know about the site an hour to jump in. If you and 1 person are fighting with 1000 bids each, it's just like giving others a whole day to decide when to jump in, then another day, then more, then another day. I've seen over 100 people on these auctions I'm on so far. I won one, but I had to have paid way over retail anyways, so it doesn't really matter. Now these last two... I'm just watching how ridiculous it is.

But as I was saying... on these last two, I've been to points where it counted down to 1, then another bidbuddy went, and it did this the whole time, then all of a sudden a bidbuddy would be going of a new person but the other person would have disappeared. I find that odd when that person would not have known if any other bidbuddies were active without bidding a couple times themselves single clicking. Then there were other cases where it went down to 1 after tons of bid buddies fighting, then a single bid comes in at the 1, and the other bid buddy is gone.... So how did this person know the bidbuddy was off for the others as well?

Something just doesn't seem right about it. I like the items, but I don't know... this will probably be my first and last bids here until I see some kind of change on the timers where people can actually save money. Not trying to pay retail or more on everything everytime.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 PM ----------

I would not have pulled out of that auction ever after going so far, but my bidbuddy stopped firing, then when I tried to single bid, I was greeted with this message. "You cannot bid on this auction as your have exceeded your bidding limit." After HOURS of bidding, I receive this on an auction I was ALREADY bidding on? Also, I just checked my bidbuddies a second ago and none of them are firing even though they are all still set active. I hate to say it, but your script is way too buggy and the site still performs like it's in beta. I've emailed support my concern and what needs to be done in reference to my bids.

Edited by ProtoProtoss, 17 June 2011 - 02:01 PM.

Disclaimer: All of the text stated above is MY own personal opinion... so for those of you who seem to always find something or have something negative to say about anything I seem to type... :lurk5:

You can't control the flock without the fear of the wolf.
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#16

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Thanks for sharing Proto.... I was just about to buy bids..... I think I'll wait a little while longer.... I appreciate you coming and letting us all know your experience. I was watching one you were in too.... and Congrats on that win.... Please come back and tell us what the item is like once you receive it. LK

#17

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Hey Lady, I won 3 there actually. To be honest it's weird how things on that site work. Everytime I try to bid at 1 second, red text comes up and says "The Auction is Closed" but yet someone else's bid kicks off. I believe they do ship items, and are legit as far as shipping what you win, but I also believe they are using bots/shill bidders. If you watch any auction, and pay close attention to the names, you will almost never see any competition bidding, like when I speed click... usually someone would challenge that and try to speed click against me a couple times or a few hundred until they see I won't stop and leave me alone. I have not seen that one single time here. On top of this, if you watch the autobidders fighting... How is it that some people will be autobidding against me, and the autos always firing at 1 second... BUT... at a point when I should win, a NEW name pops up (yes, at 1 second) and takes over where the other one drops out, then you never see that name again. That just doesn't make sense. Sometimes, on coincidence, sure... but each and EVERY single time? There is no way in hell.

I've spoken to the owner once, and he seems like a cool guy, great personality and everything, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he runs a 100% legit site. After all, this is a business so I'm sure some auctions have their reserves while others do not. Either that, or the ones that win auctions extremely cheap are always bots/shills. The other thing to notice is that a lot of the bidders always bid at EXACTLY the same time... like sit and watch any auction. Place a bid and see how fast it registers... now just sit and watch... all those bids that say SINGLE BID are registering at the exact same time as a bidbuddy would register... you can watch the seconds for when they kick in and even do a count.

As far as my winnings... I have not went to a FFL dealer yet (no time as of lately) to setup the shipment, but I will probably sometime tomorrow or wed. Once that is done, I'll let you know what happens from there.

Edited by ProtoProtoss, 20 June 2011 - 10:16 PM.

Disclaimer: All of the text stated above is MY own personal opinion... so for those of you who seem to always find something or have something negative to say about anything I seem to type... :lurk5:

You can't control the flock without the fear of the wolf.
---

#18

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Awesome Awesome Report Proto.... Thanks for sharing all your information on this site and saving a bunch of us our hard earned cash.... Sorry you had to play first to tell all... but so thankful you came in to share.... High Five! :cool:

#19

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Just an FYI, don't bid on guns if you're just planning to resell them. ATF frowns on that, and I don't think they let you bid from Federal Prison.

#20

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Hey Lady, I won 3 there actually. To be honest it's weird how things on that site work. Everytime I try to bid at 1 second, red text comes up and says "The Auction is Closed" but yet someone else's bid kicks off. I believe they do ship items, and are legit as far as shipping what you win, but I also believe they are using bots/shill bidders. If you watch any auction, and pay close attention to the names, you will almost never see any competition bidding, like when I speed click... usually someone would challenge that and try to speed click against me a couple times or a few hundred until they see I won't stop and leave me alone. I have not seen that one single time here. On top of this, if you watch the autobidders fighting... How is it that some people will be autobidding against me, and the autos always firing at 1 second... BUT... at a point when I should win, a NEW name pops up (yes, at 1 second) and takes over where the other one drops out, then you never see that name again. That just doesn't make sense. Sometimes, on coincidence, sure... but each and EVERY single time? There is no way in hell.

I've spoken to the owner once, and he seems like a cool guy, great personality and everything, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he runs a 100% legit site. After all, this is a business so I'm sure some auctions have their reserves while others do not. Either that, or the ones that win auctions extremely cheap are always bots/shills. The other thing to notice is that a lot of the bidders always bid at EXACTLY the same time... like sit and watch any auction. Place a bid and see how fast it registers... now just sit and watch... all those bids that say SINGLE BID are registering at the exact same time as a bidbuddy would register... you can watch the seconds for when they kick in and even do a count.

As far as my winnings... I have not went to a FFL dealer yet (no time as of lately) to setup the shipment, but I will probably sometime tomorrow or wed. Once that is done, I'll let you know what happens from there.


Thanks for giving your feedback. I haven't posted on this forum in at least a year, but I was somewhat active back when Wavee was around. I consider myself to be experienced on penny auctions, I was ranked #43 on Swoopo, #4 on Bigdeal, and one of the top on Wavee. I don't do much penny auctions anymore, since getting banned from BigDeal, except for Bid Cactus every once in a awhile to get my fix. I just wanted to share my experience with G4P. I spent about 1k on bids and ended up winning a knife. :/ It seems like anytime I feel like things are going good I get one of two bidders that jump, bmcleod or erin824. They have been bidding non stop since I started watching the site. I am not going to say the are shills, since I have no proof, but it seems odd for someone to spend so much. Also sometimes others bid as well and one of them will jump in exactly when the other stop. I talked to the owner as well and my gut feeling he is running a honest site, but until I know for sure, I will not buy any more bids. I have about 200 left and I am done after that. What other sites do you play on that ships stuff in under 6 months?





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